New Zealand author Anne Kayes was a secondary school drama and English teacher before, in 2014. She studied for a Masters in Creative Writing at AUT.  It was here that her first book, Tūī Street Tales, started and, in 2016, it won the Storylines Tom Fitzgibbon Award.  Anne has since written Tūī Street Heroes and Tūī Street Legends.  The Tūī Street series blend ordinary daily life in New Zealand with fractured fairy tales and Māori myths and legends.  Anne is also the author of In Our Own Backyard.

Congratulations on the recent release of Tūī Street Legends which is the third book centred on these characters and their world.  What is about them which keeps you coming back to them?

The characters and their world are why I keep coming back to write Tūī Street stories. I love Tūī Street: the way the moon keeps watch over the kids at night, how mythical creatures are drawn to the street, the way magical events are just part of life there. I like the way the magic extends to Awatiu School, a place where the kids feel they can be themselves and where the teachers treat them with care and respect.

I also keep coming back because I enjoy being with the characters. They are funny, honest and they have each other’s backs. They’re not afraid to have different opinions about things; they trust their friends to speak truthfully if they disagree. Making each other laugh is a special thing friends do for us and even just writing something funny that a character says makes me smile. I also respect and like the adults in Tūī Street who keep a kind eye on their neighbours and step in to help, if necessary.

They’re getting older – so are you likely to keep writing about these youngsters as they start high school and, if so, what issues would you like to explore there?

I’ve just had a few weeks visiting schools with this third book and the question of whether I’m writing another Tūī Street book always comes up. I haven’t yet decided on whether to follow the characters into high school. I must admit to wondering about how they would behave, interact and grow in this different ‘world,’ so I am curious.

If I do go ahead, three issues I think would be interesting to explore are: coping with a tough teacher, handling difficult behaviour from another student, struggling with a subject and not feeling confident enough to get help. Of course, these sound very serious, and they are, but there would be magic and laughter, as always.

What is that you enjoy about myths and legends, folklore and fairytales?

I enjoy the magic and imagination in the plot and the bravery of the characters who have to face-down danger. Also, many of these old stories teach us something about how people lived and how they saw the world long ago, which is always fascinating.

Did you enjoy reading these stories as a child – or were there others that captured your imagination?

I enjoyed reading these stories as a child, but I was frightened of some of them. I particularly disliked Hansel and Gretel. I found it deeply disturbing that a father could leave his children in a forest where they could be eaten by wolves. I couldn’t believe he would let his new wife, the stepmother, dictate to him and persuade him to treat his children so badly. I think, on reflection, that I had a love-hate relationship with fairy tales.

Other stories that captured my imagination as a child were often set in lands that I knew nothing about. Looking back now, I realise that the central character was often a girl too. I read Anne of Green Gables, Little House on the Praire and books that had a magical feel to them, like A Wrinkle in Time. As a teenager, I became interested in books that were about social issues such as The Outsiders, To Kill a Mockingbird and The God Boy, a NZ novel.

You did an MA at the AUT Centre of Creative Writing and researched folklore for this. What did you learn that, perhaps, surprised or even delighted you?

I was surprised to learn that the fairy tales and folklore we know now are not the same as the stories that were told centuries ago. Originally, these tales were for adults too and were shared as people sat around in the evenings together. They were much scarier, filled with violence, supernatural happenings and magic. Female and male characters were often shown to be equally strong and capable. Children sat around with their parents and heard these versions of the stories too.

When Queen Victoria ruled England during the 1800s, she had very strict views about what was right and wrong. People started to believe that children should have stories that were more suitable for them. Writers began to ‘clean up’ fairy tales, taking out much of the violence and magic. Girl characters were shown to be less powerful than boy characters. They were often waiting for someone else to act for them, usually a prince who would save them from something difficult and then, hopefully, marry them so they could live happily ever after. These stories didn’t treat characters as fully human, rounded people.

I was delighted to see that during the last 50 years, people have written versions of fairy tales that allow characters to have a range of behaviours again.

How difficult is it to take that academic research and use it to write accessible, enjoyable and enchanting books like the Tūī Street ones?

I’d describe it as an exciting challenge. The academic research taught me that stories change over time, reflecting how society changes around them. I wanted to write about a group of kids in present-day Aotearoa and to reflect our society, our people and cultures in the stories. My first decision was that they would be studying fairy tales, folklore and legends at school. I then began to imagine how the characters, events and creatures from these stories could become part of the Tūī Street kids’ daily experiences.

It was important to me to have rounded characters, who could think for themselves, unlike the ‘cleaned-up’ fairy tales. I decided to ‘push back’ against many stereotypes, e.g. Ella has a kind stepmother, who’s the opposite of the ‘wicked stepmother’ stereotype in fairy tales. Instead, it’s Ella who struggles with her stepmum who’s kind to her; she just wants her mum back.

I also wanted to explore what some of the themes in those old stories might look like today. For example, the bullying of Snow White by her stepmother becomes the bullying of a younger, better player in a soccer team. Instead of a mirror that can tell lies, the computer screen is where lies are told, and cruel things are said via the team’s Facebook page.

A scene from Tūī Street Heroes.

In some cases, I decided to explore the stereotype more deeply. For example, what makes a person a ‘wicked stepmother?’ What’s her own story that’s led her to be this way? When I thought about the witch in Rapunzel, I asked myself, ‘what fears would drive someone to keep another person so tightly under their control? How does someone who’s being controlled find their voice, become assertive and find people who will help them?’

What is your writing process – and what do you when the going gets tough and you have to confront things like writer’s block?

I usually treat writing like an ordinary job, so I make sure I’m sitting at my laptop at the same time every morning and just start writing. Some days, I visit schools, so I don’t write on those days. If I feel a bit ‘blocked,’ I just write anyway. Sometimes, writing any old thing that comes into my head can lead to a paragraph or page in a story. I try not to let writer’s block stop me from writing. Even if what I’m writing isn’t related to the story in the beginning, it might become related or it might be a whole other story that I can work on another time.  I always have breaks. Walking our dog is a good break. Often an idea comes to me when I’m outside walking.

Where do you write?

I write in a small room that looks out over a train station. This means I can have some dreamy moments and see who’s waiting for a train and listen to people laughing and chatting. I have some magical things in the room, like a small wooden carving of someone riding a chariot that my son gave me once. I have a picture of a tūī on a card that a friend sent me and a small amethyst crystal that I saved before my daughter gave it to an op shop. I love the way it sparkles when the sun passes over it while I’m writing. My desk is a bit magical too. It’s an old wooden one that I bought second-hand years ago. It has a drop-down part where my laptop sits. If I wanted to, I could close it up. It has a keyhole too, but the key was lost long ago before I bought it. Luckily, I don’t mind if anyone reads my writing, so I don’t need a key.

It’s the school holidays so if you were a budding young writer with some downtime, how would you spend it to help you on your ‘writing journey?’  Reading, writing, going out and having life experiences?

I’d definitely read, because that way, we grow our ideas of all the things writing can be. If I had to read a novel or short stories for school, I’d get those out of the way first, so that I could relax and enjoy the books I have chosen.

If I was going out somewhere with friends or family, I’d take notice of the things that people say and the funny little habits they might have like flicking their hair back or jiggling their leg. I’d notice things around me: billboards, cars, shop signs, expressions on the faces of people passing by. I remember once passing by an elderly woman who said to the person beside her, “I always drink green tea at 3pm every day.” I said to my daughter who was with me, “Imagine being that organised, having such a strict schedule. I wonder what her house is like.” I pictured everything being in its proper place and not a speck of dust anywhere. One day, I will have a character in a story I write who is based on that one sentence I heard that woman say.

I would try to carve out an hour a day to write. I wouldn’t put pressure on myself that it’s got to be amazing writing. I’d just enjoy writing. Sometimes it’s hard to set up a regular time because we have things we want to do in the holidays, so the time might need to change each day. Some days, we might not get to write at all because of other commitments, which is the way life goes. I always try not to read over my writing until I have finished. It’s easy to get stuck on one paragraph otherwise and not go any further. You can read over all of it later and make changes then.

Finally, can you recommend a New Zealand’s children book that you would always suggest others read?

I loved White Lies, Māori Legends and Fairytales by Falstaff Dowling-Mitchell. I couldn’t stop turning the pages. It’s about the friendship between two boys who live in Huntly and the things they face alone and as friends.  Two other NZ books I loved are Bullseye Bella by James T. Guthrie and Conrad Cooper’s Last Stand by Leonie Agnew.